Advised Improvements for Horde Mode

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Rehtael, Sep 19, 2014.

  1. Rehtael

    Rehtael Member

    I'm a huge fan of players vs AI hordes in a lot of games (Halo Reach, Team Fortress MvM, Left4Dead2, etc.), so the Minimum Horde mode was right up my alley. However, it leaves me with a bit of a bittersweet feeling...

    Current issues I have with it:

    -Waves are too long. Death leaves you waiting for a long time on top of the additional power-loss punishment.

    -Enemies increase in power far too quickly. Considering most of the rangers are wielding either accurate rifles or explosives, it leads to players favoring a turtle-meta by wave 3 and punishes users for using most risk vs reward weapons.

    -Enemies don't drop enough shards. Players use take turrets into the match only for the armor shards dropped by them, not for the use of the turret. (Which shouldn't be able to target bots, that would be too easy, but should have some other practical application.)

    -Knight enemies are either too durable or too powerful. Either have them keep their current toughness and give them a weaker weapon, or reduce their toughness and give them a more close quarters weapon.

    -Bot AI aren't mobile enough on the space station. Given the choke points of that map, enemies using explosives have a huge advantage over players on top of the fact that they like to remain stationary.

    -There's no reliable way of getting powerups besides the golden creeps which only really reward two players per wave. Either the drop rate should be increased, or there should be an alternative way of obtaining powerups.

    -Rewards given post game are too high. For only making it four waves, you get far too many rewards in comparison to other modes for how little progress you make and how little time you spend. I've earned FAR more from repeated rounds of horde mode than my accumulative wins in TDM and Titan combined, which would be a thing to be proud of IF it were hard to get as far as I did.

    -Enemy weapons are too accurate. Giving the AI some shotguns and reducing their accuracy would be a good step towards making the AI more fair.

    I hope that most people will agree with me about this, and that my suggestions aren't the minority opinion.
    Keep up the good work Minimum Team!
     
  2. TheeAntiChrysler

    TheeAntiChrysler New Member

    I agree mostly. Too big of a jump in difficulty by wave three, too much reward for progressing only a little, and too few powerups/resources to counter the big jump in difficulty. I really hope this mode gets much needed improvements, but turrets should attack bots with reduced damage vs certain or most bots.
     
  3. vifoxe

    vifoxe New Member

    Instead of creating a new thread I'll post my suggestions.

    Currently the mode is too decentralized. Players do not have any way to naturally congregate beyond actual communication (shocking, I know).

    1. Make the game mode require the enemies to capture a single capture point in a location of the LD's choosing. This will focus the gameplay tremendously and give a place for players to naturally travel too. This will offer the opportunity to add some risk vs reward elements further from the point
      1. Make the bots spawn further from the capture point, bots will then travel along predictable paths.
      2. Let players respawn on long-ish countdowns, say around 20 seconds. Place these spawn points farther from the point. If the game is already lost then players won't be able to counter the bots from capturing the point in time.
    2. More cash between rounds/more cash from bots, especially the tougher ones.
    3. I can't really tell the difference between the weaker bipedal enemies and the tougher enemies. I think this comes down to how bulky their silhouettes are. More flare = tougher? The VFX on powered up weapons is also a really good indicator of how tough something could be, utilize that methodology.
    I think those are the major points.
     
  4. TJ

    TJ Human Head Staff Staff Member

    hey guys, so there are some improvements coming to horde mode.

    originally we removed the rewards cause players could go afk for hours and lvl/farm the hell out of it. but now there are rewards/xp biased on how many waves you finish (if you die it doesn't count to finishing that wave)

    lvl 3 was there so players wouldn't play horde forever while others were stuck watching (no respawning at that point)

    soon you should see mobs drop more mats (or a mat spawning time in between waves. dunno if it got in or not). lvl 3 will be weaker.

    hope these changes are better for ya
     
  5. Rehtael

    Rehtael Member

    They sound promising. I understand a want for horde to not go on forever, but I'd like to actually make a fair degree of progress when I play horde mode, not just reach wave 4 and basically just struggle in futility since my maxed out weapons and armor still struggle to go toe-to-toe with the knights.
     
  6. TLaw122

    TLaw122 Member

    Looking forward to these changes! We will be able to survive at least one more wave XP
     
  7. TJ

    TJ Human Head Staff Staff Member

    yes, the waves should be toned down so it doesn't go from COD hard to Nintendo hard.
     
    4 people like this.
  8. Rehtael

    Rehtael Member

    Japanese Nintendo-hard. America Nintendo is weaksauce.
     
    2 people like this.
  9. TJ

    TJ Human Head Staff Staff Member

    *rant* i'm not talking about nintendo the company... partially am, i am talking pre america nintendo, when games didn't become so easy you could fart on a controller and see all of the content. Like battle toads, i remember that game, tough as hell at level 3, i think i could count the number of times i beat that level on one hand as a kid, why did i keep at it, cause level 1 and 2 were so much fun i didn't care. *rant*
     
  10. Rehtael

    Rehtael Member

    Check out Goemon's Great Adventure. It was a VERY japanese game with an English release for the N64. Challenging, charming, intricate. Sadly, I can't get it working on any emulator up to a certain point in the game.

    -Back to the Horde Mode discusssion-
    I strongly suggest removing the dinos. While they're an interesting and unique enemy, it's a bit difficult to understand their motions as well as their resistances and stats. Especially considering they fulfill the same role as the Ninja and Samurai. Also, it would be nice to have clarification on armor that revolves around killing to include in their description whether or not Horde Mode bots count.
     
  11. TLaw122

    TLaw122 Member

    Nooo! I love the dinos! They are fun xd. And their movement is not that hard to predict, they just come right at you. My only problem in horde mode (except the difficulty that we already discussed) is that the bots should glow (the same way the players do) when they take dmg so that we can make better decissions (fight or run for example). Also the description on weapons u suggested would be helpful. For example the Ninja Chestplate doesnt heal u when u kill a bot in horde mode...
     
  12. TJ

    TJ Human Head Staff Staff Member

    careful what you say of the dinos, there are staff around here who would kill for them in the game... not a person, that would be murder... but a twinkie, they would kill that.

    so for horde mode if it says weapon gets %dmg more then that weap does more to horde mobs.

    i did propose an armor addition for horde settings where the tanky armors took less from the heavies and did more to the melees, the high dmg armors did more to heavies but were murdered by melees and the support gets the mid range where you have the guys with launchers and bullet hells. But!! if we were to do this it would be months out.
     
  13. TLaw122

    TLaw122 Member

    I'm afraid we were too late TJ :(
    [​IMG]
    Poor twinkie...

    I love that idea. For now when i play horde with friends we all take full Olympian Armor so that we can stack the effects...
     
    2 people like this.
  14. Rehtael

    Rehtael Member

    I meant the dinos were difficult to get in the sense that they don't have much of an attack animation. It's hard to tell if they've bitten you, and it's hard to tell what their range is. And as I mentioned, while I think they're interesting, they do fill the same basic role as the Ninja and Samurai.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2014
  15. TLaw122

    TLaw122 Member

    Yeah, i dont dissagree, it would be better for us of the dinos become animated (it would also be rly cool). Also, they surelly do fill the same role as ninjas and samurais in terms of gameplay but what about the "fun element"? It is kinda funny to see those dinos running around isnt it? :p

    Also, dont forget... The twinkies are in danger :p

    EDIT: I rly like the fact that newer guys in the game like u are being active in the forums :)
     
  16. Rehtael

    Rehtael Member

    I see a lot of early access games flop due to poor community input, and poor responses from the creators. It would be a TRAGEDY if that were to happen to Minimum.
     
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  17. TLaw122

    TLaw122 Member

    I agree man, but i doubt the same will happen here... After all, i dont believe the community inputs and the dev responses are poor.
     
  18. TJ

    TJ Human Head Staff Staff Member

    Hey heads up TLaw, Olympian doesn't stack, i'm sorry over all it is not a bad set, but you can't stack it at all... unless something broke recently and you can stack it cause then that would be the most powerful sets ever.
     
  19. TLaw122

    TLaw122 Member

    Oh, dayum... It still is though, if not the best, one of the best armor sets to use in horde mode.

    Ty for the info :p
     
  20. TJ

    TJ Human Head Staff Staff Member

    yeah no problem, and yeah we knew if it stacked early on with its original stats players could get 200% run speed bonus and 250% damage or so, it was nuts, but the system just never worked with stacking buffs... so we never fixed it.
     
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