Height difference | Blocking Volume | Melee OP | Turrets UP | Mid Air Rocket Hit

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by ChA1NsAw, Aug 9, 2014.

  1. ChA1NsAw

    ChA1NsAw New Member

    1. I'd suggest more height difference in maps.
    During TDM I generally only experienced playing on 1 floor, trying to evade annoying ledges. You can lift jump in this game, use it.

    It's somewhat better in Titan mode, but I also experience the same. Levels don't feel natural. It's like everything is placed randomly like a tetris game.

    HAWKENs maps are a great example, also tried this game today and their maps are incredibly well made to get the feeling you are free in a map like Unreal Tournament, even with giant mechs. It should be the same with Minimum, even more so.
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    2. Also the blocking volumes could be better. Constantly being stuck on little things is annoying.
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    3. Swords are too strong. I shoot a player in his back with my mini launcher multiple times and he doesn't die. He turns around, dashes toward me and I die, even when I keep shooting the ground infront of him to do AoE damage, he still kills me. Swords are overpowered or the other guns are under powered, take your pick.
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    4. Turrets are useless. They just sit there and die.
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    5. Maybe mid air body hits with rockets should do bonus damage to get the gratification as when you land a mid air rocket hit in Unreal Tournament. Big, maxed items should give the unstoppable feeling if you kill someone. I barely have it with ranged weapons, only with melee.

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    Maybe I'm wrong with all of this, only been playing today. I'm very hopeful for this game, but it definitely needs tweaks or you can just call this a hack & slash game.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2014
  2. Sonitorum

    Sonitorum New Member

    1) Wouldn't mind seeing this, although it's unrealistic to expect this.

    2) Agreed.

    3) While they may seem unfair to deal with at first, there's simple and straight-forward ways to counter it. Check out the Katana fighting guide on Minimum's Steam hub or the Tips n' Tricks section of these forums to learn more.

    4) Minigun Turret, sure. Flame Turret, however, is actually quite powerful. Place it hidden around corners and you're good. It's stronger than Proximity Mines around corners.

    5) Disagreed. Being able to land Launcher projectile hits in mid-air is already its own reward, as Launchers are only useful on grounded foes.
     
  3. ChA1NsAw

    ChA1NsAw New Member

    The fact that there is a guide on how to counter katana's, and not any other weapon says enough. It's still a shooter, not hack & slash. I agree they should be very strong, when you knife someone in the back, but if you can survive 3 full body rocket hits and still kill me instantly with a knife, I expect to be able to dodge.
    Having to go trough wacky movements to evade slashers is not what I expect from this game, I want to evade rockets ,other incoming fire and play in team to win. Now I'm most focused on dodging slashers.

    Even in HAWKEN you can dodge with enormous machines, shouldn't be too hard to implement it in minimum. Special gear or what not. The possibilities of crafting could be endless.
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    5)It's not, but maybe I'll have to play with a stronger launcher. As far as my experience tells me, hitting people with the mini launcher feel like mosquito bites compared to hitting someone in unreal tournament with any weapon.
     
  4. methman28

    methman28 New Member

    TJ please nerf batana!!! I am tired of walking into melee range of my enemy with my launcher to be 1banged by these sword noobs!! Freaking Shane fix the damn swords ???
     
  5. LebronJames

    LebronJames Active Member

    Nice.
     
  6. Awpteamoose

    Awpteamoose New Member

    Why not play Quake or UT? Those games don't have katanas, have height and all those things you like.

    Also, turrets simply didn't work last time I checked.
     
  7. Pika

    Pika New Member

    swords are too strong? lol news to me
     
  8. Sonitorum

    Sonitorum New Member

    Katanas aren't knives. They're Katanas, and as long as you leave yourself in the open to be hugged by them, they'll slice n' dice you into tiny little cubes.

    The Katana guide is up there because unlike when you're fighting against any other weapon, fighting against Katanas is the least intuitive thing to new players since they think that simply walking backwards will make them invincible. Feel free to some of the tips in there until you can get comfortable with aiming. Eventually, evasion and dodging will just become second nature to you a sometimes, you won't even need to do crazy sprint-pedaling as you become more aware of your surroundings.

    Also, you say you're using a Mini Launcher? Katana users are on the ground 90% of the time, so you're easily able to take them out in 4 shots on average, given that you sprint-pedal when being chased. It's really not that hard to perform, and if it's a valid counter that's very effective, then you can't call Katanas OP.
     
  9. ChA1NsAw

    ChA1NsAw New Member

    Why? Because the steam description mentions the following:

    "Are you a fan of old-school twitch shooters like Unreal Tournament and Tribes? What about team focused MOBAs like DotA and League of Legends? Would you like to play a game that combines elements of both genres while adding crafting, customization, giant robots and a bold new art style to the mix?"

    If it didn't mention Unreal Tournament I wouldn't be here posting suggestions.

    Just like UT you need skill in minimum to use weapons effectively, except for the katana's.
    In UT you had the impact hammer, which was awesome and strong, yet you still had to be skilled at moving swiftly and dodging to go on a rampage. With the katana's you just dash forward and take the kill. If there are pro's at evading katana's, there will also be pro's in using them.

    Because of this I'm also never inclined to use the shotgun. What's the use of a short ranged gun that doesn't kill faster in close combat than a katana.
     
  10. Pika

    Pika New Member

    Swords are the weakest things in the game. They are usually chosen by new players as a way to kill other noobs so new players feel a sense of accomplishment. Most shooters have a weapon the noobs can use. This is a tactic to "level" the playing field. At least in the beginning. Other than space station, they're pretty useless. Shotguns are worse? Lol not quite. Just level them up and use their alt fires. If anything, swords are under powered. I use them to dick around. I would never seriously use them in my loadout.

    If you're referring to ambushing players, then yea with the inferno katanas dash ability, fully leveled it becomes decent. But your head should constantly be on a swivel. The mouse should always be turning.

    There will be no katana pros at this game. Unless you mean weakening somebody with a gun, then finishing them off in close quarters with a sword.

    I do agree with you on geometry of maps. Some questionable design choices in regards to map design, as well as ceiling. Things should be fully scalable with jump legs unless it's clearly not reachable like a mountain or something. Feels very unsatisfying timing a great double jump and missing an obstacle by inches.
     
  11. Sonitorum

    Sonitorum New Member

    So yeah, Katanas are pretty much the noobtube of Minimum. Effective on low-skill players, but on hardened players, they're very situational and you shouldn't be using them exclusively.

    In my experience, Shotguns allow you to make kills pretty smoothly at close range, especially since every one of them except one has some secondary fire that allows you to effectively chase your opponents. Then there's the Auto Shotgun which trades off all of those chasing abilities for raw power.

    Shotguns already have:
    * Awesome accuracy at close range to land all pellets on someone
    * Decent accuracy at mid-range to apply light damage
    * Headshot capabilities (1.5x damage)
    * The ability to let you jump around and shoot while maintaining decent close range accuracy

    Shotguns are just more versatile than Katanas for close range combat, and you don't have to worry as much about "ambushing" since you're perfectly capable of taking people on directly with the plethora of chasing abilities you have to choose from with the Shotguns.

    But while Shotguns can be pretty powerful, Katanas are also meant to be as viable as any other weapon. It was tested that 3-slash kills are the only way to make them viable, and when the late-game phase arrives with everyone armored up, there's less of a guarantee that three-slash kills will ever occur.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2014
  12. Banana Jones

    Banana Jones New Member

    You guys pretend like you can only use one weapon at a time. Katana's are the best close range finisher while your pprimary weapon is reloading.
     
  13. Sonitorum

    Sonitorum New Member

    Most weapons are viable to be used on their own, but there's no doubt that using both weapons in your loadout will maximize your effeciency (Taser + Heal Katana was a fun ride; most Shotgun + Katana combinations yield pretty intense experiences).

    It's just easier to talk about the single weapons, is all.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2014
  14. Awpteamoose

    Awpteamoose New Member

    Wait, first you're saying that you need no skill to use katanas effectively and then you say that there will be pros in using them, correct?
    Also, I'd like to know what do you qualify as "skill"? I mean, pressing LMB repeatedly when you're next to an opponent really does not take much skill, but I'd say getting that close without dying certainly does. I'd also say that pressing LMB at enemy heads with a sniper rifle does not take much more skill than just pressing LMB with a katana and it certainly doesn't take any to just stand in places with good LOS and wait for enemies to show up.

    It's also funny how different people complain about different weapons - launchers, auto shotgun, explosive sniper, katanas. Really shows that the game's balance in quite the right spot.
     
  15. ChA1NsAw

    ChA1NsAw New Member

    Pro's with 'noob' weapons > Noobs with 'noob' weapons

    Anyway, back to TF2 untill this game is balanced and released. Excitement ensues.
     
  16. Sonitorum

    Sonitorum New Member

    I'm curious as to what sort of balance suggestions you would put out, though. How would you make the weapons that you despise seem not overwhelmingly powerful, but not useless either?

    If anything, the fact that you can't headshot with Launchers, and that you have to chase people keeping their heads on the swivels with Katanas, should already be enough of a balance. Armor stats would also directly affect weapon balancing, too, as some armor combinations go very well with certain loadouts.

    They only seem overpowered at low skill level playing fields, but more "balanced" at higher skill level playing fields.
     
  17. TJ

    TJ Human Head Staff Staff Member

    i'm not nerfing the katanas, they are not foam bats to hit other players with and make them giggle. they are swords.
     
    7 people like this.
  18. Banana Jones

    Banana Jones New Member

    Are there plans to diversify the swords TJ? Mostly the Giant killer is why i ask, although i do love the way it is now, i don't think there is a downside to it at the moment.
     
  19. Sonitorum

    Sonitorum New Member

    Oh yeah... what's the news on Giant Killer's new secondary fire?
     
  20. ChA1NsAw

    ChA1NsAw New Member

    Intriguing counterargument. Let's hope the playerbase doesn't take after the name.
     

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